WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.409 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:03.409 --> 00:07.305 align:middle line:90% 00:07.305 --> 00:10.740 align:middle line:84% All right, Pam, in this exercise, 00:10.740 --> 00:13.327 align:middle line:90% you're gonna be my employee. 00:13.327 --> 00:15.910 align:middle line:84% You're the director of business development for the Black Swan 00:15.910 --> 00:16.410 align:middle line:90% Group. 00:16.410 --> 00:18.360 align:middle line:84% You handle business development, and you're 00:18.360 --> 00:21.360 align:middle line:90% making about $120,000 a year. 00:21.360 --> 00:24.750 align:middle line:84% And you've decided that you want to make more money, OK? 00:24.750 --> 00:29.220 align:middle line:84% So you walk in, sit down, open it up. 00:29.220 --> 00:32.475 align:middle line:84% Hey, thanks for taking the time to meet with me. 00:32.475 --> 00:34.100 align:middle line:90% You're welcome. 00:34.100 --> 00:35.640 align:middle line:84% You know, what I'm coming to do 00:35.640 --> 00:40.020 align:middle line:84% is to ask you for an increase in salary. 00:40.020 --> 00:42.570 align:middle line:84% And I really would like to change 00:42.570 --> 00:46.680 align:middle line:84% my title from director of business development to a VP, 00:46.680 --> 00:48.670 align:middle line:90% I think. 00:48.670 --> 00:50.860 align:middle line:84% It's kind of the natural progression. 00:50.860 --> 00:52.870 align:middle line:84% How much of a raise would you like to get? 00:52.870 --> 00:56.230 align:middle line:84% Well, right now, I'm making $120,000. 00:56.230 --> 00:59.740 align:middle line:90% I'd like to be at $160,000. 00:59.740 --> 01:01.960 align:middle line:90% $160,000, OK. 01:01.960 --> 01:05.860 align:middle line:84% So I'll take a step back as a teacher. 01:05.860 --> 01:11.676 align:middle line:84% Most employers look at employees as selfish people. 01:11.676 --> 01:13.500 align:middle line:90% OK. 01:13.500 --> 01:15.590 align:middle line:84% Because when they walk in the boss's office, 01:15.590 --> 01:17.840 align:middle line:84% you never come walking in the boss's office 01:17.840 --> 01:20.690 align:middle line:84% unless you want something for you. 01:20.690 --> 01:24.100 align:middle line:84% So I'm gonna know, going in, if you made an appointment for me. 01:24.100 --> 01:27.490 align:middle line:84% You didn't come in here to make my life better. 01:27.490 --> 01:29.270 align:middle line:84% You came in here to ask me for something. 01:29.270 --> 01:30.190 align:middle line:90% Right. 01:30.190 --> 01:35.260 align:middle line:84% So how do I know that giving you a raise is gonna help me? 01:35.260 --> 01:37.920 align:middle line:90% 01:37.920 --> 01:38.820 align:middle line:90% You don't. 01:38.820 --> 01:41.040 align:middle line:84% You just think if you get an agreement on a price, 01:41.040 --> 01:42.480 align:middle line:90% everything else would be lovely. 01:42.480 --> 01:42.980 align:middle line:90% Right. 01:42.980 --> 01:47.190 align:middle line:84% Which is a normal reaction from most people. 01:47.190 --> 01:50.537 align:middle line:84% And that's how most people sink themselves in job negotiations. 01:50.537 --> 01:52.120 align:middle line:84% They don't walk into the boss and say, 01:52.120 --> 01:55.440 align:middle line:84% hey, how can I be more valuable to you? 01:55.440 --> 01:58.380 align:middle line:84% Because when you say, how could I be more valuable to you, 01:58.380 --> 01:59.970 align:middle line:84% suddenly that changes my perspective. 01:59.970 --> 02:02.710 align:middle line:84% You didn't come in here to get something for yourself. 02:02.710 --> 02:06.230 align:middle line:84% You actually came in here to make my life better. 02:06.230 --> 02:09.380 align:middle line:84% That's a game-changing moment, initially. 02:09.380 --> 02:11.390 align:middle line:84% Just by asking that kind of a question 02:11.390 --> 02:12.980 align:middle line:84% or taking that kind of an approach-- 02:12.980 --> 02:14.730 align:middle line:90% Right. 02:14.730 --> 02:17.130 align:middle line:84% --then it's immediately a different conversation. 02:17.130 --> 02:19.950 align:middle line:84% Immediately, you're no longer a selfish employee 02:19.950 --> 02:22.410 align:middle line:84% who came in here with her hand out, OK? 02:22.410 --> 02:24.870 align:middle line:84% You put one hand, you put two hands out, 02:24.870 --> 02:26.917 align:middle line:84% and willing to have one handful, you're 02:26.917 --> 02:28.500 align:middle line:84% gonna put two hands out because you've 02:28.500 --> 02:30.667 align:middle line:84% been told to ask for more than what you want, right? 02:30.667 --> 02:31.530 align:middle line:90% Right. 02:31.530 --> 02:34.410 align:middle line:84% Aim high is the big lie that's out there. 02:34.410 --> 02:36.430 align:middle line:90% Aim high. 02:36.430 --> 02:41.500 align:middle line:84% Now, how much do you know about my ability to pay you? 02:41.500 --> 02:42.700 align:middle line:90% I don't. 02:42.700 --> 02:44.080 align:middle line:90% You presume it's there. 02:44.080 --> 02:44.800 align:middle line:90% Right. 02:44.800 --> 02:45.760 align:middle line:90% But you don't know. 02:45.760 --> 02:46.500 align:middle line:90% Right. 02:46.500 --> 02:49.440 align:middle line:84% And you don't know how to make yourself more valuable. 02:49.440 --> 02:50.410 align:middle line:90% Oh, right. 02:50.410 --> 02:53.635 align:middle line:84% So how do you do that in a job negotiation? 02:53.635 --> 02:55.010 align:middle line:84% You got to come in, first of all, 02:55.010 --> 02:58.880 align:middle line:84% and find out am I living up to expectations? 02:58.880 --> 03:01.090 align:middle line:90% How have I done? 03:01.090 --> 03:05.110 align:middle line:84% How do I negotiate my success for the future? 03:05.110 --> 03:08.860 align:middle line:84% Then you start talking about what that success is worth. 03:08.860 --> 03:12.350 align:middle line:84% But terms make the deal in any negotiation, 03:12.350 --> 03:14.770 align:middle line:90% especially in a job. 03:14.770 --> 03:20.480 align:middle line:84% You know in advance that a lot of employers 03:20.480 --> 03:24.320 align:middle line:84% might look at employees as selfish. 03:24.320 --> 03:27.450 align:middle line:84% That in order to disarm that you might say, look, 03:27.450 --> 03:29.480 align:middle line:84% I don't want you to think I'm selfish. 03:29.480 --> 03:31.577 align:middle line:84% But instead of denying it, you want to say, 03:31.577 --> 03:33.160 align:middle line:84% I'm gonna have a conversation with you 03:33.160 --> 03:35.690 align:middle line:84% where I'm gonna seem very selfish. 03:35.690 --> 03:38.720 align:middle line:84% That disarms that feeling from the very beginning. 03:38.720 --> 03:42.330 align:middle line:84% It also warns me that this is a serious conversation. 03:42.330 --> 03:45.520 align:middle line:90% OK, Pam, so let's reverse roles. 03:45.520 --> 03:50.950 align:middle line:84% And I'll be the employee coming into your office, 03:50.950 --> 03:54.660 align:middle line:84% and you will be the owner of the company. 03:54.660 --> 03:56.110 align:middle line:90% OK, good. 03:56.110 --> 03:56.610 align:middle line:90% All right. 03:56.610 --> 03:59.510 align:middle line:90% 03:59.510 --> 04:01.920 align:middle line:84% Pam, thanks for making time for me today. 04:01.920 --> 04:02.420 align:middle line:90% Sure. 04:02.420 --> 04:06.610 align:middle line:84% I got something that you are not gonna want to hear. 04:06.610 --> 04:08.850 align:middle line:90% OK. 04:08.850 --> 04:12.240 align:middle line:84% How can I be guaranteed to be involved 04:12.240 --> 04:16.410 align:middle line:84% in projects that are critical to the strategic future 04:16.410 --> 04:19.110 align:middle line:90% of this company? 04:19.110 --> 04:23.420 align:middle line:84% Well, I think if you want to take a leadership 04:23.420 --> 04:28.700 align:middle line:84% role on some other projects, we should look into that. 04:28.700 --> 04:31.410 align:middle line:84% And forgive me, this is gonna sound very selfish. 04:31.410 --> 04:34.340 align:middle line:84% I'm not looking for mundane projects. 04:34.340 --> 04:35.900 align:middle line:84% I want to get out up front on stuff 04:35.900 --> 04:39.200 align:middle line:84% that makes a difference on everybody's behalf. 04:39.200 --> 04:40.850 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think that would be great. 04:40.850 --> 04:45.275 align:middle line:84% I'd love to hear anything that you have prepared or any ideas 04:45.275 --> 04:47.750 align:middle line:84% that you have on how to get there. 04:47.750 --> 04:49.550 align:middle line:84% I'd be happy to prepare some ideas. 04:49.550 --> 04:51.720 align:middle line:84% What are some of our critical objectives? 04:51.720 --> 04:55.520 align:middle line:84% You know, what are the top three objectives for the coming year? 04:55.520 --> 04:57.200 align:middle line:90% Well, we need growth. 04:57.200 --> 05:00.178 align:middle line:84% We need to bring in more accounts, as you know. 05:00.178 --> 05:01.970 align:middle line:84% What type of accounts are we looking for? 05:01.970 --> 05:04.700 align:middle line:84% Because, you know, some accounts are strategically more 05:04.700 --> 05:05.590 align:middle line:90% valuable than others. 05:05.590 --> 05:06.090 align:middle line:90% Right. 05:06.090 --> 05:11.510 align:middle line:84% I'm thinking more high-end kind of accounts. 05:11.510 --> 05:14.540 align:middle line:84% All right, so I'm gonna take a step back right now because not 05:14.540 --> 05:16.130 align:middle line:84% knowing the business, you don't know what kind of high-end 05:16.130 --> 05:17.463 align:middle line:90% accounts those are specifically. 05:17.463 --> 05:19.700 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I don't want nickel and dime accounts. 05:19.700 --> 05:22.190 align:middle line:84% But how does this conversation feel to you right now? 05:22.190 --> 05:24.490 align:middle line:84% I don't even realize you're asking me for a raise. 05:24.490 --> 05:24.990 align:middle line:90% Right. 05:24.990 --> 05:27.080 align:middle line:84% Because I'm talking about our future. 05:27.080 --> 05:28.490 align:middle line:90% Right. 05:28.490 --> 05:30.740 align:middle line:84% Now, the compensation for that will 05:30.740 --> 05:33.170 align:middle line:84% come after we talk about what's valuable 05:33.170 --> 05:34.530 align:middle line:90% and how valuable it is. 05:34.530 --> 05:35.030 align:middle line:90% Right. 05:35.030 --> 05:36.405 align:middle line:84% And there will come a time when 05:36.405 --> 05:37.910 align:middle line:84% I'm gonna ask for what my, quote, 05:37.910 --> 05:40.370 align:middle line:84% "fair share," to use the F bomb, I'm gonna 05:40.370 --> 05:41.630 align:middle line:90% want my fair share of that. 05:41.630 --> 05:42.710 align:middle line:90% Right. 05:42.710 --> 05:45.320 align:middle line:84% And what I'd offer to you-- and feel free to reject it-- 05:45.320 --> 05:50.090 align:middle line:84% is my current salary plus a percentage of the additional 05:50.090 --> 05:51.510 align:middle line:90% value that's brought in. 05:51.510 --> 05:54.760 align:middle line:84% If no additional value's brought in, 05:54.760 --> 05:56.930 align:middle line:84% then there's no additional money. 05:56.930 --> 06:01.220 align:middle line:84% I would like to add in, also, I'd 06:01.220 --> 06:05.565 align:middle line:84% like to put you in a position to hire somebody to fill my spot. 06:05.565 --> 06:07.940 align:middle line:84% Because if you promote me, we need somebody to do my job. 06:07.940 --> 06:08.750 align:middle line:90% Right. 06:08.750 --> 06:11.330 align:middle line:84% So let's anticipate that so that everybody moves up 06:11.330 --> 06:12.320 align:middle line:90% at the same time. 06:12.320 --> 06:20.620 align:middle line:84% So is 25% of the increase a ridiculous amount? 06:20.620 --> 06:24.860 align:middle line:84% That's not ridiculous, 25%, but it 06:24.860 --> 06:28.100 align:middle line:90% is a large percentage, 25%. 06:28.100 --> 06:33.320 align:middle line:90% Or we could do maybe 10%, 15%? 06:33.320 --> 06:37.120 align:middle line:84% So the better job I do, the less you want me to get paid? 06:37.120 --> 06:38.860 align:middle line:84% No, not the better job that you do. 06:38.860 --> 06:41.570 align:middle line:84% It's 15% that you weren't getting before. 06:41.570 --> 06:42.070 align:middle line:90% Right. 06:42.070 --> 06:43.330 align:middle line:90% And what about the remainder? 06:43.330 --> 06:44.530 align:middle line:90% Where were we before? 06:44.530 --> 06:47.980 align:middle line:84% Where was the company before with the 75%? 06:47.980 --> 06:49.795 align:middle line:90% With the 75%? 06:49.795 --> 06:51.000 align:middle line:90% Is it there now? 06:51.000 --> 06:53.530 align:middle line:90% The 75% is not there now. 06:53.530 --> 06:57.560 align:middle line:84% It's not 75% that we all get profit, you know? 06:57.560 --> 06:59.080 align:middle line:90% It has to go out to overhead. 06:59.080 --> 07:01.810 align:middle line:84% And with the added income that we're getting, 07:01.810 --> 07:03.935 align:middle line:90% there's also added expenses. 07:03.935 --> 07:06.060 align:middle line:84% So it would be better if I didn't do this at all? 07:06.060 --> 07:07.900 align:middle line:90% No, I'm not saying that. 07:07.900 --> 07:12.490 align:middle line:84% But you wouldn't be better off if you didn't do it because you 07:12.490 --> 07:13.870 align:middle line:90% wouldn't get that 15%. 07:13.870 --> 07:16.250 align:middle line:90% Does 15% seem ridiculous to you? 07:16.250 --> 07:16.990 align:middle line:90% It does. 07:16.990 --> 07:17.950 align:middle line:90% It does. 07:17.950 --> 07:18.620 align:middle line:90% It really does. 07:18.620 --> 07:19.370 align:middle line:90% I was actually-- 07:19.370 --> 07:20.890 align:middle line:90% I had in mind probably-- 07:20.890 --> 07:24.010 align:middle line:84% see, and I've done business in the past where 07:24.010 --> 07:26.020 align:middle line:90% we did 50/50 deals. 07:26.020 --> 07:30.760 align:middle line:84% So actually, a 50/50 gain, 50% for you guys and 50% for me. 07:30.760 --> 07:32.275 align:middle line:90% Mm-hmm. 07:32.275 --> 07:35.290 align:middle line:84% Well, you're not taking all the responsibility that we are. 07:35.290 --> 07:38.800 align:middle line:90% I mean, 50-50 is-- 07:38.800 --> 07:41.440 align:middle line:90% I mean, that's unheard of. 07:41.440 --> 07:45.440 align:middle line:84% Did you have this in mind before I came in the door? 07:45.440 --> 07:45.940 align:middle line:90% No. 07:45.940 --> 07:48.010 align:middle line:84% I wasn't thinking it, but I could 07:48.010 --> 07:50.357 align:middle line:90% have bandied about the idea. 07:50.357 --> 07:51.940 align:middle line:84% Well, so now that you have the idea, 07:51.940 --> 07:53.690 align:middle line:84% you can hire somebody else to do this job? 07:53.690 --> 07:55.750 align:middle line:90% I mean, it's-- 07:55.750 --> 07:57.490 align:middle line:84% I don't want you going anywhere, OK? 07:57.490 --> 07:58.930 align:middle line:90% I think this is a great idea. 07:58.930 --> 08:00.850 align:middle line:90% I do. 08:00.850 --> 08:03.730 align:middle line:84% And I think bringing in someone else 08:03.730 --> 08:08.700 align:middle line:84% to work under you that you train to help bring in more income, 08:08.700 --> 08:10.010 align:middle line:90% I think that's great. 08:10.010 --> 08:11.980 align:middle line:90% I think that's a great step. 08:11.980 --> 08:15.690 align:middle line:90% So maybe 20-- 08:15.690 --> 08:20.100 align:middle line:84% That sounds like two jobs that I'm willing to take on. 08:20.100 --> 08:20.910 align:middle line:90% Right. 08:20.910 --> 08:22.530 align:middle line:90% For the price of one. 08:22.530 --> 08:25.830 align:middle line:84% Well, I wouldn't say for the price of one. 08:25.830 --> 08:27.890 align:middle line:84% So we're better off if I don't take 08:27.890 --> 08:29.710 align:middle line:84% on these new additional responsibilities, 08:29.710 --> 08:31.070 align:middle line:90% and we just leave this out. 08:31.070 --> 08:32.730 align:middle line:84% We'd be better off just not doing this. 08:32.730 --> 08:34.909 align:middle line:84% Of course, we wouldn't be better off. 08:34.909 --> 08:36.620 align:middle line:84% OK, of course, we wouldn't be better off. 08:36.620 --> 08:42.620 align:middle line:84% So I could maybe give you 20% on that new business brought in. 08:42.620 --> 08:44.370 align:middle line:90% 20%, I think that's reasonable. 08:44.370 --> 08:46.110 align:middle line:90% I think that's fair. 08:46.110 --> 08:49.370 align:middle line:90% And if it's not fair? 08:49.370 --> 08:51.230 align:middle line:90% Well, I think it is fair. 08:51.230 --> 08:55.070 align:middle line:84% And so, respectfully, it seems like you have 08:55.070 --> 08:56.360 align:middle line:90% reasons for saying it's fair. 08:56.360 --> 09:00.572 align:middle line:90% 09:00.572 --> 09:05.670 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think it's a standard business practice. 09:05.670 --> 09:08.370 align:middle line:84% I think it's the standard what's being paid right now. 09:08.370 --> 09:09.745 align:middle line:84% I don't think you're gonna go out 09:09.745 --> 09:11.847 align:middle line:90% there and see more than 25%. 09:11.847 --> 09:14.430 align:middle line:84% So if we could find an outside standard to set the criteria, 09:14.430 --> 09:16.070 align:middle line:84% you'd be happy to settle on that? 09:16.070 --> 09:18.270 align:middle line:84% If to move the needle, it is the difference 09:18.270 --> 09:21.400 align:middle line:90% between 20% and 25%, then fine. 09:21.400 --> 09:23.490 align:middle line:90% It can be 25%. 09:23.490 --> 09:26.880 align:middle line:84% That's-- but you're gonna take full responsibility for this, 09:26.880 --> 09:28.838 align:middle line:84% and you're gonna train a new person. 09:28.838 --> 09:30.130 align:middle line:90% I'm gonna train a new person. 09:30.130 --> 09:31.770 align:middle line:84% I want to write a handbook for them 09:31.770 --> 09:33.853 align:middle line:84% to operate from so they can actually be brought up 09:33.853 --> 09:35.370 align:middle line:90% to speed faster than I was. 09:35.370 --> 09:36.960 align:middle line:90% Well, that would be great. 09:36.960 --> 09:38.300 align:middle line:90% That would be great then. 09:38.300 --> 09:41.530 align:middle line:90% OK, 25%. 09:41.530 --> 09:43.550 align:middle line:84% So the tools that I was really using there 09:43.550 --> 09:46.520 align:middle line:84% was to get you, in your head, to think 09:46.520 --> 09:49.790 align:middle line:84% about the losses that would occur if we didn't do this. 09:49.790 --> 09:54.070 align:middle line:84% What's it gonna cost us if we stay in the status quo? 09:54.070 --> 09:56.390 align:middle line:84% If we stay in the status quo, and we don't 09:56.390 --> 09:57.870 align:middle line:90% go after this extra business-- 09:57.870 --> 09:58.370 align:middle line:90% Right. 09:58.370 --> 09:59.340 align:middle line:90% I was feeling lost. 09:59.340 --> 10:01.815 align:middle line:84% But you were like, well, so then it wouldn't make sense? 10:01.815 --> 10:02.940 align:middle line:90% We're not gonna make money. 10:02.940 --> 10:04.610 align:middle line:90% I shouldn't do it then? 10:04.610 --> 10:07.460 align:middle line:90% Well, then I was like, oh, no. 10:07.460 --> 10:08.810 align:middle line:90% You should, you should. 10:08.810 --> 10:10.520 align:middle line:84% It made me feel a loss for a thing 10:10.520 --> 10:12.300 align:middle line:90% that I haven't even gotten yet. 10:12.300 --> 10:12.800 align:middle line:90% Right. 10:12.800 --> 10:15.350 align:middle line:84% And to get anybody to change from the status quo, the status 10:15.350 --> 10:16.697 align:middle line:90% quo has got to cost them. 10:16.697 --> 10:18.530 align:middle line:84% I mean, I did feel it was fair at the end. 10:18.530 --> 10:22.760 align:middle line:84% And then it was funny because in the beginning you came to me 10:22.760 --> 10:27.620 align:middle line:84% and you were like, I want 25%, and I'm gonna hire a person. 10:27.620 --> 10:29.780 align:middle line:84% I want you to hire a person to take over my job, 10:29.780 --> 10:32.780 align:middle line:84% so that I get a promotion, and I want this money. 10:32.780 --> 10:36.530 align:middle line:84% And then by the end, I was like, OK, I'll give you 25%, 10:36.530 --> 10:38.300 align:middle line:84% but you better train this person. 10:38.300 --> 10:40.880 align:middle line:84% You better hire this person to work under you, 10:40.880 --> 10:44.000 align:middle line:84% even though that was your idea to begin with-- 10:44.000 --> 10:46.220 align:middle line:84% that I was like saying, you have to do that, 10:46.220 --> 10:48.480 align:middle line:84% and OK, I'm getting my money's worth. 10:48.480 --> 10:51.590 align:middle line:84% Like I took control of it, even though that's what 10:51.590 --> 10:53.360 align:middle line:90% you initially came in with. 10:53.360 --> 10:54.200 align:middle line:90% You felt involved. 10:54.200 --> 10:55.610 align:middle line:84% You felt invested in the process. 10:55.610 --> 10:56.570 align:middle line:90% Right. 10:56.570 --> 10:57.330 align:middle line:90% Right. 10:57.330 --> 10:59.990 align:middle line:84% And it is much your idea as it was mine at that point in time, 10:59.990 --> 11:00.230 align:middle line:90% right? 11:00.230 --> 11:00.780 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 11:00.780 --> 11:03.390 align:middle line:84% Yeah, so shared ideas are the ones that get done. 11:03.390 --> 11:05.533 align:middle line:84% And you were open to it and it was collaborative. 11:05.533 --> 11:06.950 align:middle line:84% Yeah, then it was collaborative. 11:06.950 --> 11:07.742 align:middle line:90% And then I wasn't-- 11:07.742 --> 11:10.060 align:middle line:90% I didn't think about-- 11:10.060 --> 11:13.200 align:middle line:84% I was like, this isn't as bad as you thought it was gonna be. 11:13.200 --> 11:15.370 align:middle line:90% OK, very good.